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 Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: A shot - and a miss |
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A shot and a miss – I think.
It was later afternoon on the Saturday just gone and I had gotten over
the back and into some country that was clearly often and well
traversed by deer, but without many signs of bedding or feeding that I
could see.
I was watching sapling-laden clearing of Beech forest bush, when out
of the top-right corner of my eye I saw a flick of movement from an
area I was not expecting anything to come from. Then the deer
materialised in front of me, perhaps 30meters away, and giving me a
full profile, trotting down the mini-ridge from my right through the
clearing. I was surprised at how quickly it covered that distance,
almost trotting and not walking slowly at all. The deer was a silvery/
light-grey colour, not at all the same darker colourings as the one I
shot this time last year in this same forrest. The deer stopped
momentarily, and as I brought the rifle up it moved another few
meters.
As luck would have it, this new position was behind a dense stand of
these saplings, with the deer’s nose sticking out one side as it
sniffed/nibbled the ground, and his abdomen and hindquarters sticking
out the other side. As tempted as I was to gut-shoot it just to
secure it, I know that it would be a horrid way to die and it would
run and possibly be lost in the denser bush, so I waited.
Then it took a step, revealed it’s head on which I took aim, and then
another step, putting his head behind another sapling and only
revealing two inches of upper neck between the saplings and the
aforementioned gut-shot.
I took the neck shot, and touched off a round.
Just as I did that, I saw it take another step and lift its head. As
the rifle fired, the deer vanished.
I did not see it tip over, so waited for a bit in case it had bolted
and fallen 10 feet only to get up again, then shouldered my day-pack
and went over.
No blood anywhere, and only a couple of very deep and new prints a few
meters down hill in the direction it had been heading. I spent the
next/last hour of light looking around just in case, but to no avail.
I tagged the spot on my GPS and will be back there!
A hit in that part of the neck would either shatter the spinal column
and put it down on the spot, or take out a big vein or artery going to
the brain which would have sprayed blood everywhere and it would go
down within meters, but I could not find any sign in that hour, so am
guessing my shot went low and under his neck as it stepped and raised
his head.
I have replayed that shot in my mind and am convinced that the above
is what must have happened. I have tried to second-guess whether I
should have waited for a better chest shot as would ahve prefered (and
the error from that step would still have been a fatal wound) prefer,
but at the time and the pace it came down that mini-ridge and that it
was a transit area, combined with the direction it was heading and the
foliage that way, I was guessing that it was not going to hand around
long enough for me to do so, so I took the shot that I had.
Next time, sunshine, I'll spend the whole afternoon waiting for you! |
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Chris Barnes
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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misanthropic_curmudgeon wrote:
| Quote: | I took the neck shot, and touched off a round.
Just as I did that, I saw it take another step and lift its head. As
the rifle fired, the deer vanished.
No blood anywhere, and only a couple of very deep and new prints a few
meters down hill in the direction it had been heading. I spent the
next/last hour of light looking around just in case, but to no avail.
I tagged the spot on my GPS and will be back there!
A hit in that part of the neck would either shatter the spinal column
and put it down on the spot, or take out a big vein or artery going to
the brain which would have sprayed blood everywhere and it would go
down within meters, but I could not find any sign in that hour, so am
guessing my shot went low and under his neck as it stepped and raised
his head.
|
Not necessarily....
A low shot could just as well take out the esophagus and/or windpipe,
neither of which would leave a whole lot of blood. A shot to either of
those would be fatal to the deer.... eventually (but almost certainly
NOT quickly).
I say this not intending to criticize you personally, only to point out
why neck shots are NOT a good choice.
--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
"Usenet really is all about standing around and hitting the ground
with clubs, on a spot where many years earlier a dead horse lay." |
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Frank
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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Chris Barnes wrote:
| Quote: | misanthropic_curmudgeon wrote:
I took the neck shot, and touched off a round.
Just as I did that, I saw it take another step and lift its head. As
the rifle fired, the deer vanished.
No blood anywhere, and only a couple of very deep and new prints a few
meters down hill in the direction it had been heading. I spent the
next/last hour of light looking around just in case, but to no avail.
I tagged the spot on my GPS and will be back there!
A hit in that part of the neck would either shatter the spinal column
and put it down on the spot, or take out a big vein or artery going to
the brain which would have sprayed blood everywhere and it would go
down within meters, but I could not find any sign in that hour, so am
guessing my shot went low and under his neck as it stepped and raised
his head.
Not necessarily....
A low shot could just as well take out the esophagus and/or windpipe,
neither of which would leave a whole lot of blood. A shot to either of
those would be fatal to the deer.... eventually (but almost certainly
NOT quickly).
I say this not intending to criticize you personally, only to point out
why neck shots are NOT a good choice.
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I certainly agree. You have to look at the whole deer and consider if
shot is off several inches, where it will go. The safest bet is always
the "boiler room" where heart and lungs reside. You can be off by
several inches with still getting a good result. Head and neck shots
are always risky and not worth the trying to "save the meat." A
broadside double lung shot is very efficient in this matter and brings
down the deer without much loss of meat. |
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Jim and Phyllis
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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Too bad about your deer. It is always sad to shoot and not to bring
one home.
I support your choice to pass on the gut shot. Messy, painful and
slow.
Chris is on target about the problem of neck shots. In some cases,
the bullet can go through without expanding much at all. It just
punches a hole through the neck. Chest shots are better.
Jim |
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Chris Barnes
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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Frank wrote:
| Quote: | Head and neck shots
are always risky and not worth the trying to "save the meat." A
broadside double lung shot is very efficient in this matter and brings
down the deer without much loss of meat.
|
To add... I would argue that a neck shot wastes MORE meat (and better
quality meat) than a broadside chest shot. But then, I'm one of the few
people I know that actually saves the neck meat...
--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
"Usenet really is all about standing around and hitting the ground
with clubs, on a spot where many years earlier a dead horse lay." |
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Marty Carts
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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Chris Barnes wrote:
| Quote: | Frank wrote:
Head and neck shots are always risky and not worth the trying to "save
the meat." A broadside double lung shot is very efficient in this
matter and brings down the deer without much loss of meat.
To add... I would argue that a neck shot wastes MORE meat (and better
quality meat) than a broadside chest shot. But then, I'm one of the few
people I know that actually saves the neck meat...
|
Heh! May have been the *only* one, after my
sheepish misadventure but for some good news!
I want to report that I'm even more comfortably
in concurrence with the advice about sheep's
meat taint coming not from bone, tendons, fat,
fascia, or any of the other old wives' tales
like w/venison, nor from the basic character
of the meat, but from EXternal yick** that
ought not have gotten there in the first place.
That's different than for deer. After a few deer
I'm of the opinion that w/venison it's probably
mostly or entirely Not the hair, but the squishies***
oozing where they weren't meant to be (or maybe
meat kept too warm too long) that give the meat
a taint.
With sheep that must still be true, but with an
added problem of the skin (lanolin, poop and
whatever else is hanging out there). I had ribs,
etc. grilled from a small lamb and that was wonderful.
I slow-cooked the neck from same animal and it
was horrid. Tonight we cooked steaks (from another
sheep). Of quite a lot of meat (it was *really*
good!) I had one single bite that had a distinct
"gamey" (i.e. tainted) taste and I think that was
from the outside, where the external layer of fat
was. The rest, including pieces of that fat
'rind', was *wonderful*! I'm actually happy to
have had that localized bad taste, since I think
it means it's not a characteristic of the meat
(which I can't change) but of poor method (which
I can change).
Anyway, here's a question (back onto deer): The
backstraps go all the way up the spine to at
least the ears. (Excepting those like Chris,
who save or scavenge the neck) why do people stop
short? There's a layer of forleg sheet muscle over
the backstraps up front but that's easily peeled
back with the fingers, and then there's this really
*long* muscle group that, everything else aside,
I think looks really cool, all snake-like.
What gives?
(**: Yick is the technical term for bad stuff)
(***: Squishies is the technical term for the
squishy stuff inside)
_________________________________________Marty
P.S. Three down, about 800 to go. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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On Oct 25, 8:14 am, Chris Barnes <ch...@txbarnes.com> wrote:
| Quote: | misanthropic_curmudgeon wrote:
I took the neck shot, and touched off a round.
Just as I did that, I saw it take another step and lift its head. As
the rifle fired, the deer vanished.
No blood anywhere, and only a couple of very deep and new prints a few
meters down hill in the direction it had been heading. I spent the
next/last hour of light looking around just in case, but to no avail.
I tagged the spot on my GPS and will be back there!
A hit in that part of the neck would either shatter the spinal column
and put it down on the spot, or take out a big vein or artery going to
the brain which would have sprayed blood everywhere and it would go
down within meters, but I could not find any sign in that hour, so am
guessing my shot went low and under his neck as it stepped and raised
his head.
Not necessarily....
A low shot could just as well take out the esophagus and/or windpipe,
neither of which would leave a whole lot of blood.
|
That would explain my inability to find a body or a blood trail.
| Quote: | I say this not intending to criticize you personally, only to point out
why neck shots are NOT a good choice.
|
I agree that the neck shot is not the best choice, and my preffered
shot is a chest shot (and as you note elsewhere, you keep the neck
meat as I do - it makes great stews and curries) as a couple of inches
either way with a chest shot is still an 'immediately' fatal wound.
Given:
- I shoot a .243 running factory 80grains of Federal Power
Shock ammo.
- It was a Sika deer (so not the biggest of deer by any means)
- As I menetioned in my post, I would have thought that
at such range and with such a muzzle velocity on such
a deer, that even collecting the oesophagus would have
taken out a major blood vessel or two and dropped it.
Would you still think that a throat wound would do as you suggest?
(seriously - I am not being facetious or anything)
PS1 And isn't it interetsing that in a text-based medium in a
common interest and language (yet also of differing
cultural backgrounds) we have to explcitly note our
intent to not cause offence?)
PS2 You all may have noticed that I am happy to talk about
my 'failures' as I beleive we (all) learn much from these! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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On Oct 28, 12:34 am, Jim and Phyllis <jimandphylli...@gmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Too bad about your deer. It is always sad to shoot and not to bring
one home.
I support your choice to pass on the gut shot. Messy, painful and
slow.
Chris is on target about the problem of neck shots. In some cases,
the bullet can go through without expanding much at all. It just
punches a hole through the neck. Chest shots are better.
|
A chest shot is my prefered shot for the very reason both you and
Chris mention and as I have just expanded on, but in this case it was
'not on' as the chest was obscured. My values dont allow me to gut-
shoot animals deliberately or to blow thier hindquaters out.
I'd be interested in your views (too) to what I wrote about it being a
Sika, a .243 running 80grains of Federal Power Shok, and the close
range.
If you both (and others) stand by that, then I have learnt something
and may well rule out such profile-neck shots for those very reasons -
I hunt for food and the experince, not to be cruel. The idea of a
deer running off to die of starvation or the like from a ruptured
oesophagus does not sit well with me.
Cheers, |
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Chris Barnes
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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Marty Carts wrote:
| Quote: | Anyway, here's a question (back onto deer): The
backstraps go all the way up the spine to at
least the ears. (Excepting those like Chris,
who save or scavenge the neck) why do people stop
short? There's a layer of forleg sheet muscle over
the backstraps up front but that's easily peeled
back with the fingers, and then there's this really
*long* muscle group that, everything else aside,
I think looks really cool, all snake-like.
|
Just fyi - I end up saving the neck a "lazy" way. Basically, I cut it
off at the base of the skull and where the neck joins the shoulder
(where the "collar bone" is).
This gives me a single, large "brisket" type piece of meat that I cook
whole. Actually, I cook it exactly like a brisket - ie. slow cook over
low heat for a long time w/ a dry rub. The meat literally falls off of
the neck bones.
--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
"Usenet really is all about standing around and hitting the ground
with clubs, on a spot where many years earlier a dead horse lay." |
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Da Chief
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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Chris,
Do you remove the esophagus when doing this? Or, do you leave it intact in
order to hold things together? I'm going to try a neck on my next doe,
hopefully this weekend.
--
Shelby Foles, shelbyfoles@bellsouth.net
"Chris Barnes" <snip> wrote:
| Quote: | Just fyi - I end up saving the neck a "lazy" way. Basically, I cut it
off at the base of the skull and where the neck joins the shoulder (where
the "collar bone" is).
This gives me a single, large "brisket" type piece of meat that I cook
whole. Actually, I cook it exactly like a brisket - ie. slow cook over
low heat for a long time w/ a dry rub. The meat literally falls off of
the neck bones.
snip |
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Chris Barnes
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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misanthropic_curmudgeon wrote:
| Quote: | A chest shot is my prefered shot for the very reason both you and
Chris mention and as I have just expanded on, but in this case it was
'not on' as the chest was obscured. My values dont allow me to gut-
shoot animals deliberately or to blow thier hindquaters out.
|
Good - we agree. ;-)
| Quote: | I'd be interested in your views (too) to what I wrote about it being a
Sika, a .243 running 80grains of Federal Power Shok, and the close
range.
|
I think that rifle and bullet are a fine choice.
But as you said, the chest shot was not available. For me, I would have
let the deer walk w/o shooting.
--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
"Usenet really is all about standing around and hitting the ground
with clubs, on a spot where many years earlier a dead horse lay." |
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Chris Barnes
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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Da Chief wrote:
| Quote: | Chris,
Do you remove the esophagus when doing this? Or, do you leave it intact in
order to hold things together? I'm going to try a neck on my next doe,
hopefully this weekend.
|
I remove it (as well as the windpipe).
The good news is that they sit right on top where I can simply grasp
them and give them a good jerk and they come right out.
--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
"Usenet really is all about standing around and hitting the ground
with clubs, on a spot where many years earlier a dead horse lay." |
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Steve
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: A shot - and a miss |
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On Oct 29, 7:48 am, Chris Barnes <ch...@txbarnes.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Marty Carts wrote:
Anyway, here's a question (back onto deer): The
backstraps go all the way up the spine to at
least the ears. (Excepting those like Chris,
who save or scavenge the neck) why do people stop
short? There's a layer of forleg sheet muscle over
the backstraps up front but that's easily peeled
back with the fingers, and then there's this really
*long* muscle group that, everything else aside,
I think looks really cool, all snake-like.
Just fyi - I end up saving the neck a "lazy" way. Basically, I cut it
off at the base of the skull and where the neck joins the shoulder
(where the "collar bone" is).
This gives me a single, large "brisket" type piece of meat that I cook
whole. Actually, I cook it exactly like a brisket - ie. slow cook over
low heat for a long time w/ a dry rub. The meat literally falls off of
the neck bones.
--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
ch...@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
"Usenet really is all about standing around and hitting the ground
with clubs, on a spot where many years earlier a dead horse lay."
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We try to save every little bit of meat we can (except for the bloody
area around the shot canal) and we have found the neck meat to be
great for making burger or breakfast sausage! In fact, we're hoping
to have some to sample by early next week here in MN if the
opportunity presents itself!
I can't begin to make a comment on the part of even considering an
intended gut shot. But I commend the person for deciding not to take
it............
Good Hunting!
Steve |
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