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Omelet
Guest
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
 |
|
In article <Xns9B5B4E39CB62Efoodforthought@198.186.190.162>,
"Michael \"Dog3\"" <don'task@donttell.huh> wrote:
| Quote: | Christine Dabney <artisan2@ix.netcom.com
news:kr87i4ppm9dhs700qvdro5o6rgltg1me7u@4ax.com: in rec.food.cooking
You folks got suggestions on what else to show/teach her? I am trying
to remember all the stuff I have learned over the years.....
Christine
I think you will do fine in the coaching department. Patience and fun will
be the key ingredients for you to infuse into the experience  I think
just about anything can be overlooked with family and friends around...
except a poorly cooked turkey. I'd concentrate on it and the rest will
fall into place nicely. Oh... don't forget the wine or cocktails. Lots
and lots of it ;0)
Michael
|
Eggnog. <g>
--
Peace! Om
"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama |
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Melba's Jammin
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
|
|
In article <kr87i4ppm9dhs700qvdro5o6rgltg1me7u@4ax.com>,
Christine Dabney <artisan2@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Heya folks,
I am coaching my young friend Meghan in cooking her first Thanksgiving
dinner.
(snip)
She says the numbers are up in the air right now, but it could be up
to 16 people, with friends and family coming.
I did send her a video on carving the turkey, and I have suggested
that she get a fresh turkey. And I am a big proponent of pre-salting
vs. brining, so I am teaching her to do that as well. Even Harold
McGee is against brining these days. I am sending Meghan this post
about pre-salting:
http://www.atlantacuisine.com/cgi-bin/eforums/YaBB.pl?num=1163714672/5
It is part of a thread, but the first post has the info about the
technique.
|
Interesting that it's two years old and the idea hasn't spread like
wildfire. I think today is the first I've heard/read of it. Then
again, I don't pay attention to a lot of stuff.
| Quote: |
Oh, and I told her I would make some turkey broth for the gravy.....
I might try to make a pan of stuffing this weekend, so I can make sure
I can show her that. Especially since I haven't been able to get it
right yet...LOL.
|
How do you define "right," Christine? I'll bet it's wonderful and
you're the only person not quite sold on it. We are often our own worst
critics. I've heard people say stuff like, ". . .crispy top, that's the
best part." Not for me. I like a moist dressing without a crispy top.
| Quote: |
You folks got suggestions on what else to show/teach her? I am trying
to remember all the stuff I have learned over the years.....
Christine
|
Chris has been cooking turkey for friends for 10 years or so. His calls
on Thanksgiving eve and morning used to begin with, "Mom!! How do I
(FITB)?" The last few years he just checks in on Thursday morning to
see how things are going in Beck's kitchen. A few years ago he
surprised us with a visit and I took great pleasure in observing him and
his sister in her kitchen--he was telling her what to do and how to do it.
His party at home involves people without family nearby. Each is
invited to bring The Dish That Makes It Thanksgiving. Doug made the
family cornbread dressing recipe, others brought pie, vegetable,
whatever. Potluck shared with good friends--I'll take that over a staged
meal any day. I believe Chris roasts Birdy, makes the dressing and
gravy, and others provide everything else.
The devil is in the details.
Remember that what's on the chairs is more important than what's on the
plates.
Expect her apprenticeship to take a few years. I have relinquished my
role as Chief Cook and assumed the highly sought role of Consultant.
Tell her that a paper and a pencil and lists will be her friends.
Commit to paper a project plan. I'd call it a battle plan, but am
giving a nod to Professor Schaller. "-)
The menu:
What will be served and what has yet to be purchased for fulfillment and
when she will purchase.
Pick up the nouveau. '-)
Make room in the fridge.
Her cooking schedule:
Print the recipes in a large font size and have them all together.
No more than one glass of wine while she's cooking.
Calculate start times backwards from EST (Estimated Serving Time);
What can be prepared in advance and how far in advance? No reason she
can't make cranberry sauce today. Celery and onions can be cooked (if
you precook yours) 2-3 days in advance. Rolls can be baked and frozen,
taken from the freezer in the morning to thaw, and warmed gently in the
oven after Birdy's been removed and dressing is done. Butter pats can
be made days ahead.
Make sure the knives are sharp and ready.
Her serving plan:
Serving dishes and utensils
Table linens
Set the table early in the day (some do it the night before).
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/kilikini
(Send her a note!) |
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James Silverton
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
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|
Omelet wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:55:10 -0600:
| Quote: | I would be interested in hearing about your results. That
is..if you can let yourself be objective in this. I can see
(at least from my perspective) that it is hard to give up
a tried and true result, to try something new and be
objective about the results. At least for me (sometimes) I
still want to stick with the old methods...even when the new
technique/method seems to produce a better result. I think
it might be familiarity with the older method, and the
reluctance to embrace something new....at least in my case.
I can probably think of dozens of times where this comes into
play..even when I am confronted with superior results from
the new-to-me method. I do this with piecrust, I know. And
stuffing...
We get so set in our ways, sometimes..LOL.
Christine
Christine, what is your method for brining turkeys and
chickens? I've never actually done it at all but am getting a
lot more curious about trying it. With nearly all the meat
from the grocery store already having saline injections added,
I'm wondering if there is still a good reason to do it?
|
Brining does work, even simple salted water with some sugar but variants
like adding apple juice can produce a browner result. I like to brine
turkey breast.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
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Omelet
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
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|
In article <barbschaller-AA3493.09571519112008@news.iphouse.com>,
Melba's Jammin' <barbschaller@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <kr87i4ppm9dhs700qvdro5o6rgltg1me7u@4ax.com>,
Christine Dabney <artisan2@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Heya folks,
I am coaching my young friend Meghan in cooking her first Thanksgiving
dinner.
(snip)
She says the numbers are up in the air right now, but it could be up
to 16 people, with friends and family coming.
I did send her a video on carving the turkey, and I have suggested
that she get a fresh turkey. And I am a big proponent of pre-salting
vs. brining, so I am teaching her to do that as well. Even Harold
McGee is against brining these days. I am sending Meghan this post
about pre-salting:
http://www.atlantacuisine.com/cgi-bin/eforums/YaBB.pl?num=1163714672/5
It is part of a thread, but the first post has the info about the
technique.
Interesting that it's two years old and the idea hasn't spread like
wildfire. I think today is the first I've heard/read of it. Then
again, I don't pay attention to a lot of stuff.
Oh, and I told her I would make some turkey broth for the gravy.....
I might try to make a pan of stuffing this weekend, so I can make sure
I can show her that. Especially since I haven't been able to get it
right yet...LOL.
How do you define "right," Christine? I'll bet it's wonderful and
you're the only person not quite sold on it. We are often our own worst
critics. I've heard people say stuff like, ". . .crispy top, that's the
best part." Not for me. I like a moist dressing without a crispy top.
You folks got suggestions on what else to show/teach her? I am trying
to remember all the stuff I have learned over the years.....
Christine
Chris has been cooking turkey for friends for 10 years or so. His calls
on Thanksgiving eve and morning used to begin with, "Mom!! How do I
(FITB)?" The last few years he just checks in on Thursday morning to
see how things are going in Beck's kitchen. A few years ago he
surprised us with a visit and I took great pleasure in observing him and
his sister in her kitchen--he was telling her what to do and how to do it.
His party at home involves people without family nearby. Each is
invited to bring The Dish That Makes It Thanksgiving. Doug made the
family cornbread dressing recipe, others brought pie, vegetable,
whatever. Potluck shared with good friends--I'll take that over a staged
meal any day. I believe Chris roasts Birdy, makes the dressing and
gravy, and others provide everything else.
The devil is in the details.
Remember that what's on the chairs is more important than what's on the
plates.
Expect her apprenticeship to take a few years. I have relinquished my
role as Chief Cook and assumed the highly sought role of Consultant.
:-)
Tell her that a paper and a pencil and lists will be her friends.
Commit to paper a project plan. I'd call it a battle plan, but am
giving a nod to Professor Schaller. "-)
The menu:
What will be served and what has yet to be purchased for fulfillment and
when she will purchase.
Pick up the nouveau. '-)
Make room in the fridge.
Her cooking schedule:
Print the recipes in a large font size and have them all together.
No more than one glass of wine while she's cooking.
Calculate start times backwards from EST (Estimated Serving Time);
What can be prepared in advance and how far in advance? No reason she
can't make cranberry sauce today. Celery and onions can be cooked (if
you precook yours) 2-3 days in advance. Rolls can be baked and frozen,
taken from the freezer in the morning to thaw, and warmed gently in the
oven after Birdy's been removed and dressing is done. Butter pats can
be made days ahead.
Make sure the knives are sharp and ready.
Her serving plan:
Serving dishes and utensils
Table linens
Set the table early in the day (some do it the night before).
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
|
Yer good Barb.
--
Peace! Om
"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama |
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Omelet
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
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|
In article <10XUk.1512$4g5.1265@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
"James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton@verizon.not> wrote:
| Quote: | Omelet wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:55:10 -0600:
I would be interested in hearing about your results. That
is..if you can let yourself be objective in this. I can see
(at least from my perspective) that it is hard to give up
a tried and true result, to try something new and be
objective about the results. At least for me (sometimes) I
still want to stick with the old methods...even when the new
technique/method seems to produce a better result. I think
it might be familiarity with the older method, and the
reluctance to embrace something new....at least in my case.
I can probably think of dozens of times where this comes into
play..even when I am confronted with superior results from
the new-to-me method. I do this with piecrust, I know. And
stuffing...
We get so set in our ways, sometimes..LOL.
Christine
Christine, what is your method for brining turkeys and
chickens? I've never actually done it at all but am getting a
lot more curious about trying it. With nearly all the meat
from the grocery store already having saline injections added,
I'm wondering if there is still a good reason to do it?
Brining does work, even simple salted water with some sugar but variants
like adding apple juice can produce a browner result. I like to brine
turkey breast.
|
But what about whole turkeys?
I actually have the 'frige space to do it.
--
Peace! Om
"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." -- Dalai Lama |
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notbob
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
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|
On 2008-11-19, Christine Dabney <artisan2@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
| Quote: | You folks got suggestions on what else to show/teach her? I am trying
to remember all the stuff I have learned over the years.....
|
Goodonya, Chris. Passing the torch is part of being a good cook, which I
know you are. Teaching someone else is one of the true joys of cooking.
I'll give my suggestions after reading rest of thread. ;)
nb |
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notbob
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
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On 2008-11-19, cybercat <cyberpurrs@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | It's unbelievable how people overcomplicate simple tasks. Excellent cooks
have been browning turkeys at 450 F for the first 15 minutes then covering
and roasting at 350 F for 20 minutes a pound for generations.
|
Never seen it done this way and have never done it myself, yet still enjoyed
perfectly browned birds for years. How is this possible?
Not condemning your process, cyb, just saying it's not the only way to reach
same goal. My late MIL always roasted bird in oven till browned ...though
not completely done, and "tented" ....just layed layer of foil over top....
bird till finised. Perfect every time. Jes saying more than one way to
brown the bird.
nb |
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notbob
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
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On 2008-11-19, Christine Dabney <artisan2@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
| Quote: | No, we are not brining. Read the article I posted, from Russ Parsons
of the LA Times. The pre-salted is WAY better than brining... Light
years better.
http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-turkey19-2008nov19,0,4842837.story
|
Thank you. So sick of the whole "brining" issue. Totally bogus as far as
I'm concerned.
nb |
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Melba's Jammin
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:19 am Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
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|
In article <w6WdnY2iCprMgrnUnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@giganews.com>,
nathon.slatior@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (nathonn) wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Christine,
If she is new in cooking then you have to try to
tech some easy item.so she belives in herself that she can do it.
|
Good advice! No, *excellent* advice. When people ask about my canning
success, I end my story with this: "There's nothing like success to
encourage a person." I salute you!
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/kilikini
(Send her a note!) |
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The Cook
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:35 am Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
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|
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:57:15 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
<barbschaller@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <kr87i4ppm9dhs700qvdro5o6rgltg1me7u@4ax.com>,
Christine Dabney <artisan2@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Heya folks,
I am coaching my young friend Meghan in cooking her first Thanksgiving
dinner.
(snip)
She says the numbers are up in the air right now, but it could be up
to 16 people, with friends and family coming.
I did send her a video on carving the turkey, and I have suggested
that she get a fresh turkey. And I am a big proponent of pre-salting
vs. brining, so I am teaching her to do that as well. Even Harold
McGee is against brining these days. I am sending Meghan this post
about pre-salting:
http://www.atlantacuisine.com/cgi-bin/eforums/YaBB.pl?num=1163714672/5
It is part of a thread, but the first post has the info about the
technique.
Interesting that it's two years old and the idea hasn't spread like
wildfire. I think today is the first I've heard/read of it. Then
again, I don't pay attention to a lot of stuff.
Oh, and I told her I would make some turkey broth for the gravy.....
I might try to make a pan of stuffing this weekend, so I can make sure
I can show her that. Especially since I haven't been able to get it
right yet...LOL.
How do you define "right," Christine? I'll bet it's wonderful and
you're the only person not quite sold on it. We are often our own worst
critics. I've heard people say stuff like, ". . .crispy top, that's the
best part." Not for me. I like a moist dressing without a crispy top.
You folks got suggestions on what else to show/teach her? I am trying
to remember all the stuff I have learned over the years.....
Christine
Chris has been cooking turkey for friends for 10 years or so. His calls
on Thanksgiving eve and morning used to begin with, "Mom!! How do I
(FITB)?" The last few years he just checks in on Thursday morning to
see how things are going in Beck's kitchen. A few years ago he
surprised us with a visit and I took great pleasure in observing him and
his sister in her kitchen--he was telling her what to do and how to do it.
His party at home involves people without family nearby. Each is
invited to bring The Dish That Makes It Thanksgiving. Doug made the
family cornbread dressing recipe, others brought pie, vegetable,
whatever. Potluck shared with good friends--I'll take that over a staged
meal any day. I believe Chris roasts Birdy, makes the dressing and
gravy, and others provide everything else.
The devil is in the details.
Remember that what's on the chairs is more important than what's on the
plates.
Expect her apprenticeship to take a few years. I have relinquished my
role as Chief Cook and assumed the highly sought role of Consultant.
:-)
Tell her that a paper and a pencil and lists will be her friends.
Commit to paper a project plan. I'd call it a battle plan, but am
giving a nod to Professor Schaller. "-)
The menu:
What will be served and what has yet to be purchased for fulfillment and
when she will purchase.
Pick up the nouveau. '-)
Make room in the fridge.
Her cooking schedule:
Print the recipes in a large font size and have them all together.
No more than one glass of wine while she's cooking.
Calculate start times backwards from EST (Estimated Serving Time);
What can be prepared in advance and how far in advance? No reason she
can't make cranberry sauce today. Celery and onions can be cooked (if
you precook yours) 2-3 days in advance. Rolls can be baked and frozen,
taken from the freezer in the morning to thaw, and warmed gently in the
oven after Birdy's been removed and dressing is done. Butter pats can
be made days ahead.
Make sure the knives are sharp and ready.
Her serving plan:
Serving dishes and utensils
Table linens
Set the table early in the day (some do it the night before).
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
|
When I moved I went from a stove with 2 ovens to a stove with 1 oven.
I sat down and made a list of everything I was going to serve. I then
figured out what could be done early, the order of things into the
oven, what was to be done on the stove top, microwave, toaster oven. I
was able to get the food on then table pretty much on schedule and
nothing cold that wasn't supposed to be.
I hope I still have that list. |
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Kathleen
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
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|
cybercat wrote:
| Quote: | "Christine Dabney" <artisan2@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:kr87i4ppm9dhs700qvdro5o6rgltg1me7u@4ax.com...
Heya folks,
And I am a big proponent of pre-salting
vs. brining, so I am teaching her to do that as well. Even Harold
McGee is against brining these days. I am sending Meghan this post
about pre-salting:
http://www.atlantacuisine.com/cgi-bin/eforums/YaBB.pl?num=1163714672/5
It is part of a thread, but the first post has the info about the
technique.
It's unbelievable how people overcomplicate simple tasks. Excellent cooks
have been browning turkeys at 450 F for the first 15 minutes then covering
and roasting at 350 F for 20 minutes a pound for generations. It's nothing
new to cover a roasting bird. It does not need to be called "steaming." And
brining is absurd. It is unnecessary as long as one seasons the cavity and
the skin, and places quartered onions and rosemary or sage inside the
cavity.
|
I cooked my first whole turkey when I was all of 9 years old. I
followed the instructions on the wrapper. It ain't rocket science.
I do remember finding it absolutely hysterical that you actually had to
stuff the dressing UP THE BIRD'S BUTT!!!
The turkey turned out great, nobody died of food poisoning. But in
retrospect, I think my parents were pretty brave to put a 4th grader
with a broad sense of humor in charge of that sort of project. |
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Kathleen
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:52 am Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
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|
notbob wrote:
| Quote: | On 2008-11-19, Christine Dabney <artisan2@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
No, we are not brining. Read the article I posted, from Russ Parsons
of the LA Times. The pre-salted is WAY better than brining... Light
years better.
http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-turkey19-2008nov19,0,4842837.story
Thank you. So sick of the whole "brining" issue. Totally bogus as far as
I'm concerned.
nb
|
I've done it and was less than impressed. I felt that the end result of
an extra day's work and hassle yielded a result remarkably close to that
of a "pre-basted" supermarket turkey. |
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Lin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
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|
Christine Dabney wrote:
| Quote: | Hey, just try it one time...LOL
Do a comparison, the next time you want to brine something. Yes,
regular brining produces a result you like. This might produce
something even better..but ya never know til ya try it.
|
If I go ahead and get a fresh bird after Thanksgiving, I'd be willing to
give it a go.
Have you tried the dry brine with pork or beef?
--Lin |
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Paul M. Cook
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
|
|
"Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ompomelet-EA3C08.09494719112008@news.giganews.com...
| Quote: | In article <gg0oho$6tj$1@news.motzarella.org>,
"Paul M. Cook" <pmcook@gte.net> wrote:
You folks that are rejecting a new (actually old) type of brining..try
it before you condemn it. You might find you actually like it.
I don't see anyone condemning it. It's bound to be good. It's just that
if
you have a known quantity and you plan to cook for others, it is a bit
intimidating to try something completely new for a dinner party. I
prefer
to experiment first then make it for others.
Paul
Considering the fact that most grocery store turkeys available nowadays
are pre-brined from the store, I've never seen the point in doing it.
Doesn't it make it too salty?
|
I always buy fresh birds. Many frozen turkeys are injected with basting
fluid.
Paul |
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Gregory Morrow
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: Re: Coaching a Thanksgiving Dinner newbie |
|
|
cybercat wrote:
| Quote: | "Christine Dabney" <artisan2@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:kr87i4ppm9dhs700qvdro5o6rgltg1me7u@4ax.com...
Heya folks,
And I am a big proponent of pre-salting
vs. brining, so I am teaching her to do that as well. Even Harold
McGee is against brining these days. I am sending Meghan this post
about pre-salting:
http://www.atlantacuisine.com/cgi-bin/eforums/YaBB.pl?num=1163714672/5
It is part of a thread, but the first post has the info about the
technique.
It's unbelievable how people overcomplicate simple tasks. Excellent cooks
have been browning turkeys at 450 F for the first 15 minutes then covering
and roasting at 350 F for 20 minutes a pound for generations. It's nothing
new to cover a roasting bird. It does not need to be called "steaming."
And
brining is absurd. It is unnecessary as long as one seasons the cavity and
the skin, and places quartered onions and rosemary or sage inside the
cavity.
|
The cybertwot never misses an opportunity to be a bitch...
:-)
--
Best
Greg
" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking |
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